Maccabees: When God Stopped Rescuing the Faithful

Dan McClellan Hey, everybody. I'm Dan McClellan. And I'm Dan Beecher. And this is Data Over Dogma, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion, and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan? Rocking and rolling. All right.

Dan Beecher Having some fun. Uh, I'm, I'm excited 'cause we're about to revisit, we're, we're getting back into some, uh, some fun, some Maccabees action. Yeah, some apocrypha. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, this is our chapter and verse. It's gonna be 2 Maccabees 6. Uh, and l- l- I think we should just go straight into it. What do you think? Yeah, let's do it. All right. Chapter and verse. So, 2 Maccabees, chapter six.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Uh, it's, uh, it's a good time. Uh, we... I-

Dan McClellan It's not a good time for the Jewish folks.

Dan Beecher It's not a good time- No ... for the Jew. Uh, here's what I, here's what I was sort of, my brain got a little wacky with, was that- Okay ... when I first started to read this, I was like, "Oh, crap. I think we've done this one." And then I realized that a- as I read on, and then as I re- went on to the next chapter, I was like, "Oh, we haven't done this one. We did the next one."

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher So we, uh, so r- yeah, remind us where we are, what's happening, uh, what's going on with, in Maccabees, uh, and, uh, and just sort of set the stage for this- Yeah ... story.

Dan McClellan Let, let us lay our scene in- Yeah ... the not-so-fair, uh, period of the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who was put in charge of Judea and the surrounding area, and decides to, for, to try to achieve some unity, is basically going to impose just Hellenistic cultural mores and norms and conventions. Everybody's Hellenized now.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Um, and-

Dan Beecher You're all Greeks.

Dan McClellan Yes. And so Antiochus goes into the temple, uh, profanes the temple, does some bad stuff, is suppressing the practice of Judaism. And, and the, the main things are, like, circumcision is a no-no, uh, but the, the main tool, the main way to get people to demonstrate their abandonment, basically, of, of Jewish ideals, is to get them to eat pork.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan So they're just giving, just handing out free ham left and right. And, um, unfortunately-

Dan Beecher I don't feel like it's, I, I don't feel like handing out is, uh, is-

Dan McClellan No, no, no ...

Dan Beecher the characterization- Yeah ... that I would go with.

Dan McClellan No, it's, it's, uh, being forced, shoved down people's throats, basically.

Dan Beecher Yeah, literally.

Dan McClellan Uh, yeah, as a way to, to try to basically just defile the, their laws.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And we've already talked about 2 Maccabees 7, the famous story of the mother and the seven sons. And I, I, I'm sure we talked about how there are, like, multiple different iterations of that story with-

Dan Beecher We probably did. You guys can go- Yeah ... and verify that.

Dan McClellan With, like-

Dan Beecher And fi- find, find the episode where we talk about that. But-

Dan McClellan Yeah, there's another version where it's a father named Tahoe, and, and he's, and he, like, kills his seven sons one by one rather than- Rather than, yeah ... give them up to the, to the Romans. Go, like it's a, it's, uh, it's a bizarre story. But there's, there's actually a martyrdom that precedes that, and, and this is, the end of chapter seven says, "Let this be enough, then, about the eating of sacrifices and the extreme tortures." Like, we shared two main stories- ... and then the author's like, "Look, we've had enough of- Enough ... of hearing about this." Yeah.

Dan Beecher You get it. You get it.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher The, the whole sacrifice thing.

Dan McClellan So, so what's the opposite of women and children? Well, it would be an old man.

Dan Beecher An old man. Yeah.

Dan McClellan And, and that's what we get in the story of the martyrdom of Eleazar, uh, which runs from chapter six, verse 18 through to the end, verse, uh, 31. And I thought we could just read through it and pause and talk every now and then about, uh, s- what's going on here. And so, "Eleazar, one of the scribes in high position, a man now advanced in, in age and of noble presence, was being forced to open his mouth to eat pig's flesh." So old guy, and, and in, in this time period, uh, age, seniority had a lot of honor that was associated with it.

Dan Beecher Yeah. And that's made clear. Like, throughout this whole thing, it's, it's, it, it's like, this guy was amazing- Yeah ... from his whole birth. His whole life- Yeah ... he's been amazing, but now he's, like, the most honorable man- Yeah ... blah, blah, blah.

Dan McClellan And it says, "But he welcoming death with honor rather than life with pollution, went up to the rack of his own accord, spitting it out, as all ought to go who have the courage to refuse things that it is not right to taste, even for the natural love of life." And so the idea is, um, you know, honor and purity you should love more than you should love your own life.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan So we're, we're getting a story of basically the ultimate costly signal, 'cause that's the, that's kind of the ideal that is, uh, that is being explicitly repeated here.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Love the law, love purity, love honor more than even your own life. And as, as I'm reading this, I'm reminded of stories that, that we've lamented, uh, within, um, my own tradition, but, but this is something we find in a lot of different traditions, where people will talk about, um, chastity- Yeah ... being more important than your own life. You ought to fight to the death, uh, rather than be forced to lose your virginity, your chastity- Right ... or something like that. Right, right. Which is obviously biologically meaningless. Uh, that is just- Yeah ...

Dan Beecher it's

Dan McClellan a ve-

Dan Beecher It's, it's, it's a, it's, it's a weird thing to s- to tell a youn- I mean, and it's always young women that are, that get-

Dan McClellan Yeah, yeah ...

Dan Beecher this messaging.

Dan McClellan Well, and, and there's a reason for that. It, it's really just a vestige of the treatment of a woman's body as a commodity to be bought and sold.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Uh, that's what's going on with marriage in the Bible, and, uh, we're still kind of building on that foundation of, "Oh, that's for her husband to utilize and make use of, so it's gotta be shiny and new and have that new car smell- Right ... when he purchases it," 'cause that's his property now. So, so that's, that's really the origin of the perception that there's anything special about this thing known as virginity that we made up. Right. Anyway, that's, that's neither here nor there. But what we've got is, is this costly signal, and he's being very explicit about it. Um-

Dan Beecher Well, and being very explicit about... I, you know, what it, what it reminded me of, and it- the thing that I thought you were about to bring up- Mm ... is stories that we were told by, uh, April O'Joy and by Monte Mader of being told their whole lives that they were going to be, they were likely going to encounter a moment where they were, their faith was challenged in the way that this, that Eleazar's- Yeah ... faith is challenged, and that they were going to have to make a decision, and that they would, they should lay down their lives rather than ever deny Christ or whatever. And, uh, and you know, that doesn't ever happen. But the- ... but that story is prominent in a lot of, like, evangelical or, or, or very, uh, very conservative Christian circles here in the US.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher I don't know how prominent it is in other parts of the world, but, but that seems to be a big deal. Uh, which is weird, 'cause they don't even read 2 Maccabees. So how do they even know- ... that stuff? Anyway, let's go on with- Yeah ... the story.

Dan McClellan But that's, uh, well, to, to riff off of that a little bit too, I'm, I'm reminded of a story that I always thought was fascinating. Uh, in, in Nazi Germany- Mm ... there was a Jewish family that was trying to get out, and they were... The, the father was a photographer, and he, you know, was surrounded by Christians. And so one of, an advertisement that he put together was, uh, a way to promote his business. He had his family pose as if they were celebrating Christmas.

Dan Beecher Mm-hmm.

Dan McClellan And he took photos of his family celebrating Christmas. They were Jewish.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan They were not Christians. He used that as evidence at the border-

Dan Beecher Oh, wow ...

Dan McClellan that they were not Jewish and got out. Escaped Nazi Germany. Wow. And I've, I've always thought, wow, what a... Well, one, just awful, awful circumstances. How fortunate for this man and his family that he had that promotional work available to- Right ... to use in that way. But also, and then I thought, if I were a, uh, one of these Christians who was like, "You will die before you will, you know, um, abandon the faith," or something like that, I would have... That, that would be represented as a violation of, of your, your expectations, your duties as- Yeah ... a Christian. You're, you're quite explicitly saying, "Nope, I wanna live." And, and I... So the, the value there, uh, I just find that fascinating to think about how certain people will hold up certain things as, as identity markers that you need to place before your own life. Yeah. And I'm of, of the opinion that, that there's not really a good reason for that kind of thing. And so anyway.

Dan Beecher Yeah. I- It, it, it has to be better than... To my mind, there are, there may be, uh, very rare circumstances where, you, you know, you take a principled stand that costs you your life.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher But it's not pork. Can we just, can we- ... just agree that it's not, it's not food?

Dan McClellan Yeah. Uh, well, and, and, and there are a variety of things that it shouldn't be.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan I mean, you know, the lives of other people.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Uh, obviously. There, there, there are things that I think are, are bigger than us that, that, yeah, are, uh, are, are valid.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Uh, but usually when people are, are trying to identif- trying to leverage these identity markers, it's not actual important stuff.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Um, anyway, verse 21, "Those who were in charge of that unlawful sacrifice took the man aside because of their long acquaintance with him, and privately urged him to bring meat of his own providing, proper for him to use, and to pretend that he was eating the flesh of the sacrificial meal that had been commanded by the king." So basically they were like, "Eleazar, dude, we know you."

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan "Just go home and, and get some chicken." Listen,

Dan Beecher sneak in- Just- ... some, some chicken, and, uh, we'll all just say it's pork, and it'll be cool. Yeah.

Dan McClellan Yeah. "So that by doing this he might be saved from death and be treated kindly on account of his old friendship with them. But making a high resolve, worthy of his years and the dignity of his old age and the gray hairs that he had reached with distinction in his excellent life even from childhood, and moreover, according to the holy God-given law, he declared himself quickly, telling them to send him to Hades." So yeah, he, he's not having it. And, um- Yeah ... I, I love that the, he's, uh, earned these gray hairs. The, I, I think it's an interesting ideal that people with gray hair ought to be honored.

Dan Beecher Mm-hmm.

Dan McClellan Like, you, I see that in text and I hear that a lot. I don't know anybody who's, who actually, actually feels like, uh, like gray hair is, um, is, uh, something that, that merits praise. Um-

Dan Beecher As an, as an increasingly g- gray person- ... uh, I would like us to bring that back. I would like us-

Dan McClellan Uh, yeah. Oh- ...

Dan Beecher to revive the revering of older folks

Dan McClellan So I, I, as, as you know, I have had to shave for the better part of my adult life- Yeah ... as a Latter-day Saint, whether I was a missionary or working for the LDS church or whatever. When I was able to let my beard grow back in, and this has... It actually wasn't when I left my old job, it was during COVID.

Dan Beecher Mm.

Dan McClellan 'Cause they sent us to work from home.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan And the, the no beard policy was kind of, uh, the status of that was up in the air.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan And I let my beard grow out, and I was like, "It's gray."

Dan Beecher What happened?

Dan McClellan I was like, "This is awesome." Because it's, it was, it's gray in the corners.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan It's like I, I look like freaking, uh, Doctor Strange. This is awesome. So I was, I was excited to have, uh, to have gray hair. But, um, yeah, but-

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan But anyway, so, uh, such... And, and then, uh, Eleazar makes his own little speech. And this is funny. At the end, it's gonna be like with his dying breath, he made this long speech. And it's like people don't make long speeches- No ... punctuated by a bunch of grammatical flourishes-

Dan Beecher No, and certainly not- ...

Dan McClellan with their dying breath. S-

Dan Beecher yeah, th- this isn't the dying breath speech, right? You're on twen-

Dan McClellan No, this is-

Dan Beecher You're on verse 24.

Dan McClellan Yeah, a little later on.

Dan Beecher When we get to the dying breath speech, I will make my complaint about the dying breath speech.

Dan McClellan Yeah. "Such pretense is not worthy of our time of life," he said, "for many of the young might suppose that Eleazar," now he's speaking in the third person- Right ... "in his 90th year had gone over to a foreign way of life. And through my pretense, for the sake of living a brief moment longer, they would be led astray because of me, while I defile and disgrace my old age. Even if for the present I would avoid the punishment of mortals, yet whether I live or die, I will not escape the hands of the Almighty. Therefore I, therefore, by bravely giving up my life now, I will show myself worthy of my old age and leave to the young a noble example of how to die a good death willingly and nobly for the revered and holy laws." Like, you couldn't get a more- ... like perfect message- Right ... for the youth.

Dan Beecher Allow me to sum up.

Dan McClellan It's like he's even talking to you. Yeah.

Dan Beecher Yeah. And

Dan McClellan yeah. For the sake of any youth who might hear this story- ... in the coming months and years, um-

Dan Beecher It is, it is a bit much.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher And calling yourself brave. This- No one knows ... brave extents of mine.

Dan McClellan Yes.

Dan Beecher It does seem, it does seem a little less brave to be 90 and doing... Like, you're on your way out. You're already there. You're, like, if you- Yeah ... you know, this, if this was-

Dan McClellan You're walking off the green. You need to... Yeah. Yeah. Calm down a little bit.

Dan Beecher In the next chapter, when the, when the kids do it, when the, when the young people do it, that's, that's a different story. But yeah. Yeah. A 90-year-old who's like, "You may take my life." It's like, okay, you didn't have much going on.

Dan McClellan Like, which is, which is already, I haven't had- Yeah ... my pills, so, you know.

Dan Beecher I'm s- I'm ha- one step out the door anyway.

Dan McClellan But I think this, this is interesting because the two stories are so different in that way and in other ways- Yeah ... that it strikes me, I have argued in, in a paper from a long time ago that I don't really fully stand by anymore because I was- ... I was an undergrad. But, um, I argued that these are actually, uh, redactions, that, that somebody has put these stories in here in the process of putting together the version of Second Maccabees that we have, and that these stories are from different authors. Mm. Because, like the, this story, like quite explicitly is like, "This is to be a lesson to all the youth out there that w- " And, but in the, in the next story, it's explicitly framed as, um, as a proxy sacrifice.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan As, as like expiatory, where he says, "Through, through me and my brothers to bring to an end the wrath of the Almighty that has justly fallen on our whole nation." So, like, the message is entirely different- Right ... for the two as well.

Dan Beecher Yeah, for-

Dan McClellan 'Cause Eleazar is not like, "Our nation has sinned, and I'm doing this so that my death will expiate the sins of the n- " Like, it's not that at all.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan He's, he's just saying, "I'm setting an example for others that we must, um, you know, follow the, the revered and holy laws." Right. So the, the, it's, it's an entirely different conceptualization of the meaning and the significance of the death, as well as being an example of a death that's like, well, that was coming. That was in the post. That was- Um, you know, that was... Whereas then they're like, "Fine, we'll do one with young kids."

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Um, so-

Dan Beecher The kids-

Dan McClellan And then- ...

Dan Beecher that he was talking to have heard him- Yeah ... and are, and are now ready to- Yeah ... the youth, the you- Eleazar's example has been set and- Yes ... and heeded.

Dan McClellan Um, what is the, uh, what is the, um, Eleazar's junior... Uh, what's Lebowski's little somethings? Uh-

Dan Beecher Oh, the L- Little Urban Achievers?

Dan McClellan Yeah, yeah. We've got Eleazar's little, uh, little- Little- ... law followers or something.

Dan Beecher Little- There's a- ... Little Urban Martyrs.

Dan McClellan Gosh. Uh, when he said, when he had said this, he was dragged at once to the rack. Those who a little before had acted toward him with goodwill now changed to ill will- Uh-oh ... because the words he had uttered were, in their opinion, sheer madness. When he was about to die under the blows, he groaned aloud and said, "It is clear to the Lord in his holy knowledge that though I might have been saved from death, I am enduring terrible sufferings in my body under this beating, but in my soul I am glad to suffer these things because I fear Him." So we got multiple clauses, uh, being strung together here in-

Dan Beecher It's a, it's truly an elegant thing to have proclaimed while you're on the rack.

Dan McClellan Yes, groaning, uh, in, in-

Dan Beecher Like, your- ... agony ... your bones are being broken. While you're... And, and he had ... But he had some serious wherewithal- ... to get that one out. Yeah.

Dan McClellan Um, and then verse 31, the end of the story, "So in this way he died, leaving in his death an example of nobility and a memorial of courage, not only to the young, but to the great body of this nation."

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan So, like, multiple times the author is like, "In case you haven't gotten it yet- ... this is the point of this story." Right. Um, it is quite on the nose.

Dan Beecher Yeah, it feels- Uh- ... a- and it's reiterated multiple times. It does feel like if ever there was a story that was written, uh, not, not based on anything true, but, like, written as a parable, as a, as a s- as a specific illustration of a specific concept- Yeah ... this feels like it's this.

Dan McClellan What is the... There's a joke about how, like, TV execs these days are like, because of the attention span of the TikTok generation, you have to, like, explicitly lay out the plot over- ... and over and over again. Like, I, I think I heard somebody complain that TV executives are like, "There's... You can't be subtle. You have to be explicit about the plot." Yeah. And then they, they made fun of it by, by, uh, like imagining here's the plot of some famous story- ... where everybody's like, "And, um, just to be sure, this symbol represents this thing over here." And, like, I'm sure there are people out there who could rattle off the names of, like, directors or producers or something who are like that.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan I, I can't. But- No ... so imagine that I'm like, "So, so basically this was written by so and so, whose famous industry person who always makes sure everything is explicitly clear about all the symbolism and everything." But, uh, yeah, not subtle- Yeah ... uh, about what the significance of Eleazar's death was. But in, you know, this was s- s- 2,000 some odd years ago, so.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan They, uh, they hadn't... They were still a ways off from TikTok, so their ex- ... attention spans were, were a little different. But, um, that... And then that leads right into the story of the, uh, the mother and the seven sons- Right ... which is an even more tragic tale, where these are, are not men in their 90th year. These are young boys- Yeah ... who have a lot of life ahead of them, but cherish rather the love of God over their, their life, and they know they're gonna get resurrected. That's another thing. They're, the, these stories kind of have the- Mm ... the intersection of a bunch of ideologies that really develop more fully later, like resurrection, like atoning sacrifice, all of this stuff. Uh, so it sounds t-

Dan Beecher Is it, is it resurrection or is it just, uh, is it just a nice life in the next phase? I g- I guess I don't really appreciate the difference between resurrection- Right ... as in sort of the r- the reanimation of, of, or, or, or the, the reapportionment of one's body.

Dan McClellan Yes, the, the reanimation of dead tissue, as, uh, as they say in Young Frankenstein. Um, I'm, I'm pretty sure it says that we w- we will be raised to life.

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan Um-

Dan Beecher Is that- I- ... is that a fairly new concept here? Because, because-

Dan McClellan Oh, yeah ...

Dan Beecher Eleazar has it, and they have it.

Dan McClellan Well, Eleazar doesn't have it. Oh,

Dan Beecher well, he says, uh, he s- uh, what does he say? I thought he had something. Uh, "Though I might be saved from my, from death." Oh, no, I'm j- I mean, that... That's talking about that thing. Okay.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher So Eleazar doesn't have it.

Dan McClellan Yeah. No, Eleaz- And that's, and then, and that's another way the story is different.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Is the, uh... And here it is in, in chapter 7, we have, um, verse 9, "And when he was at his last breath," again, the, the final grown soliloquy, um, "You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the king of the universe will raise us up to a renewal of everlasting life because we have died for his laws."

Dan Beecher Right. And then, uh, the, they

Dan McClellan say, "You, uh, we will be re-" W- I, I thought he said the word resurrected, but let me, let me... Sha, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na. Da, da, da, na. Um, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. 'Cause I thought that said, "We, we will be resurrected to life, but you will not," or something like that.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Um, I don't remember where it is, and I'm not gonna waste, uh, everyone's time.

Dan Beecher Well, everyone can go back and, and listen to our episode about the, the m- the mother and the, and the sons- Yes ... if they want to. Um- But, um- ... but yeah, that is, th- that is interesting that that's sort of starting to rattle around here.

Dan McClellan Yeah. And, and-

Dan Beecher But El- But the, but I think significant that Eleazar doesn't mention that. R-

Dan McClellan I believe it is significant, yeah. And another interesting thing is when we... In the Book of Daniel, you've got Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego- Mm-hmm ... who they're told to violate the laws, uh, their, their ancestral laws, and they said they will, they will trust in God. And then they say, "But if not, you know, we're, we're not gonna do what you tell us."

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan Uh, and, and basically they're, they're showing themselves willing to die for their faith, but they get saved.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan In 2 Maccabees, we have two examples of, of, uh, people who are willing to die for their faith, but they are not saved. They end up dying- Right ... for, for their faith. And so it's, it's a development in this ideology where when you look in the earlier stories, in the, particularly in the, in the canonical, uh, Hebrew Bible stories, when people are willing to die, God swoops in and saves them. Not so for- Right ... Eleazar and for the mother and the seven sons, which suggests that there's a pivot towards kind of a more realist- perspective. We need to be-

Dan Beecher Daniel, we assume, was written after Maccabees?

Dan McClellan It was written, probably written, uh, close to the same time period, but I think probably a l- just before.

Dan Beecher D- uh, you know, you, we have talked a lot about, uh, a category of writing that is apocalyptic-

Dan McClellan Mm-hmm

Dan Beecher ... uh, writing. Is there... D- do scholars talk about there being a category for martyrdom stories?

Dan McClellan Oh, yeah. Martyrdom tales are, are a part of, uh, they're, they're frequently incorporated into apocalyptic literature. But yeah, these are, these are martyrdom tales.

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan And, but they, they require that the martyrdom actually take place. And I think right around-

Dan Beecher Oh

Dan McClellan ... this time period is when you get the pivot from the miraculous salvation of the person who was willing to die to the death of the person who was willing to die. And 'cause when you get into, um, you know, and, and later in Judaism, you have fewer miraculous savings. And n- and when we get into Christianity, there are a lot more martyrdom tales where they do die.

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan Until, you know, we, we talked about Thecla and s- and stuff like that-

Dan Beecher Uh-huh

Dan McClellan ... where, where there's there are miraculous savings and, um, things like that with Paul, um, and others. But, uh, but yeah, it's, it's certainly, martyrdom tales certainly become kind of a genre-

Dan Beecher Interesting

Dan McClellan ... uh, particularly within, uh, early Judaism, and then even more so within early Christianity.

Dan Beecher Well, there you have it. Uh-

Dan McClellan Yeah

Dan Beecher ... I, I find that, yeah, it's, it... Now my mind's thinking about, like, Abraham and Isaac, and, like, that, that's almost a, a, a, a miraculous saving of a martyrdom. Not a martyrdom, though. I don't know. A sacrifice. It's, it gets confusing. It gets confusing-

Dan McClellan Mm-hmm

Dan Beecher ... how it, how it all works. Anyway-

Dan McClellan Yeah

Dan Beecher ... uh, just more fascinating stuff from this, uh, wacky book we call- ... the Bible.

Dan McClellan Yep.

Dan Beecher Uh, or at least it's from some Bibles. This particular thing, uh, it's- ... it's apocryphal. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I love it. All right. Well, that's it for today. If you would like to become a part of keeping this show going and healthy and, and, and happy, uh, you can, you can do it either on YouTube. If you're, if, if you're watching this on YouTube, there should be a little thing just below the video that's like Join, and then you can join and be, uh, one of the members of our channel. And that, and g- that gives you access to an early version of the show, just like our patrons over on Patreon. We'll get to that. Uh, and you get little icons that, that are exclusive to you that you can use, uh, in our comment sections. And Dan and I will, will start to do some members exclusive lives coming up soon.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

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Dan McClellan Bye, everybody.