Jesus vs. Performative Christianity

Dan McClellan Hey everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher And I'm Dan Beecher. And this is Data Over Dogma- ...

Dan McClellan where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion, and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan? Rocking and rolling, baby.

Dan Beecher It's a good day to combat misinformation.

Dan McClellan Yeah, buddy.

Dan Beecher And today we're locking horns. We're going hard.

Dan McClellan We're getting- Getting in the paint ...

Dan Beecher into it- Yeah ... with some ideas of how to do modern-day Christianity. So that's going to have some fireworks.

Dan McClellan Yeah. Got to be done.

Dan Beecher I'm excited.

Dan McClellan All right.

Dan Beecher So let's dive in with Taking Issue. All right, so buckle up. Here's our Taking Issue, and what we're taking issue with, or what I took issue with recently- Uh-huh ... was someone ruining a flight for everybody else.

Dan McClellan Recently there was a- Too much Taco Bell, that'll ruin a- That'll- ... a flight for- That's one way ... an awful lot of people. I have a little more sympathy for that than for this. That's not a thing that they're choosing.

Dan Beecher That's not their- Mm. I mean, you chose to go to Taco Bell. Don't do that before a flight. But, in this case, what we're talking about is a young man who decided on the plane to get up with his guitar and sing some praise music.

Dan McClellan Favor- Oh, boy ...

Dan Beecher a captive crowd- ... with his favorite songs of Jesus. And that, in my mind, is what hell will feel like. If there is such a place, and you can refer to our episode on that if you want to.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher But yeah, that's my idea of... It's certainly very few people's idea of an effective means of proselytizing, I will tell you that right now.

Dan McClellan Yeah. It seems to be more a means of creating enemies- Yeah ... than anything else.

Dan Beecher But- And if you see the videos of it- ... and you look at the faces of the people around him- Enemy, enemy, enemy.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher They might as well just have little things pop up above their head.

Dan McClellan Fring.

Dan Beecher I'm an enemy now.

Dan McClellan Yeah. But this kind of stuff happens on the reg.

Dan Beecher All the time, and is very clearly encouraged by a lot of pastors- Yeah ... by a lot of worship leaders.

Dan McClellan Yeah. And it seems to me to be part of this notion, and we talked about this when we had April Ojoy on.

Dan Beecher Mm.

Dan McClellan You'll recall she talked about growing up where they were expected to preach to their servers when they're in a restaurant and- Yeah ... try to get them to pray with them.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And so they could put a little notch in their belt. And so it seems to me that the idea is related to those kinds of costly signals, public displays of piety. Not so much because people think they're actually going to be effective at all, but just because for them, it crosses something off their personal checklist.

Dan Beecher But- Well, and you've talked about costly signaling as being a sort of, I would imagine, actually a valuable part of the religious experience.

Dan McClellan Yeah. Well, it's a valuable part of all kinds of social institutions and interactions and identities. You have to find ways to determine whether or not you can trust and get along with other people in your social group. And so social identities just tend to kind of create these means of signaling to each other. And I think this is more credibility-enhancing displays.

Dan Beecher Mm.

Dan McClellan So costly signaling, that's where you're willing to put on display your incurring of some kind of cost, whether it's time, money, physical effort, physical pain even.

Dan Beecher Yeah. Clothing or- Yeah.

Dan McClellan I'm willing to do this in order to show the other member of the in-group that I'm willing to tow the line.

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher I see what you're saying.

Dan McClellan Yeah. But, and there are minimum expectations, but then you can ratchet up the cost in order to show them, "I'm not just meeting the minimum expectation. I'm going well above and beyond."

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan And a good example for my own faith community, our current president of the church, Russell M.

Dan Beecher Nelson, when he exceeded to- That is not your current president of the church.

Dan McClellan Did I?

Dan Beecher Oh my gosh.

Dan McClellan Oh, gosh.

Dan Beecher Okay.

Dan McClellan Our previous president of the church, Russell M.

Dan Beecher Nelson. He just barely passed away. It's understandable.

Dan McClellan You are correct.

Dan Beecher But I just wanted to make sure that we got that correct.

Dan McClellan And yeah, thank you for being a better Mormon than I am. But yes. And when he became president of the church, one of the things he said was that the name Mormon, using that as a designator, as a name, as a nickname, was a victory for Satan.

Dan Beecher Mm-hmm.

Dan McClellan And so this became kind of a way to draw boundaries and to say, "Are you a good Mormon or a bad Mormon?" And if you use that- Based on whether or not...

Dan Beecher Yes. If you use that phrase, you're one of the bad ones.

Dan McClellan Yeah. If you use the word Mormon as a designator for yourself or for others, that's bad. And so to say Latter-day Saint or to say The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints instead of the LDS Church or the Mormon Church, is a means to incur a syllabic cost- Yeah ... to put on display that you are willing to go out of your way to signal fidelity to this new expectation. And I've got a- I've got an edited volume that should be coming out later this year called Mormonism in Five Minutes with Equinox Press, where we have a paper in there about this whole what do you call the church thing and why.

Dan Beecher Mm.

Dan McClellan But it's from an academic perspective. As an academic, I reserve the right to use Mormon because I use it more broadly. But anyway, so that's an example of that. Another example that we see an awful lot, certainly you've seen these examples of people who have gone to jail because they were protesting outside of abortion clinics or something like that.

Dan Beecher Sure.

Dan McClellan And usually it's not just because they were protesting it.

Dan Beecher No, they were doing something very bad.

Dan McClellan Yes. But when their in-group talks about them, it is, "Look what they were willing to do because of how much they care about the sanctity of human life."

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan "They are so committed to the cause that they're willing to go to jail." And that is another example of costly signaling. And yeah, this is just something that is natural to all social identities, but we do see some criticism of this in that book. What is it called?

Dan Beecher The New Testament. Ah, yeah.

Dan McClellan Yes.

Dan Beecher From one of those lesser-known characters, that Jesus fella.

Dan McClellan Yeah, one of those hippy-dippy- ... woo-woo folks.

Dan Beecher Yeah, it does seem like there are sufficient... This was part of what raised my eyebrow, is that it seems like there are a lot of verses, especially in the gospels, and especially red letter verses.

Dan McClellan Uh-huh.

Dan Beecher Stuff that you have Jesus saying that are like, Sermon on the Mount. He's criticizing the Pharisees for their outward shows.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher For their big, bold, outward shows of their religiosity.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Chapter 6 has a couple of really good verses.

Dan McClellan "So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised of others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward." I think this is actually phenomenally insightful because it's pointing out, what is the point of doing that? It is so that you increase your access to power and resources, so you advance your standing in the social group. "Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners so that they may be seen of others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. And whenever you fast, do not look somber like the hypocrites, for they mark their faces to show others that they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward." So you've got a pretty clear, repeated multiple times, condemnation of folks who put their piety on display- Yeah ... in order to be seen of others and to be rewarded through advancing their standing within the in-group. And I talked about this one time when I was at Ferrum College in Virginia. In the presentation, or the Q&A afterwards, I got a question about this, and then somebody stood up and they were like, "So I'm not supposed to live my religion in public?" And it's like, okay, so now we've got two sides to this issue.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan What is the reason you're doing it? Are you doing it so that you can put on display to others that you're one of the good ones? Is that so that you can benefit yourself? Or are you doing it because you feel that you're setting a good example maybe for others? Or you've got people in your immediate orbit, your kids or something like that you're trying to set a good example for. Or that's just the manifestation of your faith that you feel the need to do that kind of thing. I think there are pure motivations for doing that kind of thing.

Dan Beecher Well, and there's also the idea that is presented elsewhere in The New Testament that you're supposed to go forth and proclaim the gospel to every nation and every blah, blah, blah, and every airplane and every small, tight, enclosed space.

Dan McClellan That would be the Great Commission at the end of Matthew 28. That's where Jesus says to disciple all the nations.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And yeah, that's the other thing. Shouldn't I be trying to spread the gospel? And I think the behavior is not always necessarily because somebody's a hypocrite, but I think they need to really seriously consider why they're doing things because that impulse to do that is not something that you reason yourself into. That impulse is intuitive. That's subconscious.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And you may rationalize it any one of a number of different ways. And another example of how folks rationalize it, in James chapter 2, you've got where I think that James is directly disagreeing with Paul about the role of faith and works. "Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness, and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Now, what some people will do is they'll point to that. They'll go to verse 18. "But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from works, and I by my works will show you my faith.'" And I think they put the proverbial cart before the horse by suggesting that the good works are the outcome of the actual faith. And they'll say that this is so everybody can tell who has actual faith. And I find this bizarre because it's like I didn't think the gospel of Jesus was about proving to other members of the group that you have faith.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Like if that's what faith is for, to demonstrate your faith to another member of the in-group, that seems kind of peculiar. It seems like trying to get around the contradiction, or at least the disagreement about the role of faith and works, has generated this rationalization of faith as primarily a costly signal.

Dan Beecher Mm.

Dan McClellan As primarily a way to show others that you are part of the in-group. And I don't think the folks who appeal to that reading of what's going on in James have thought very hard about the relationship of that rationalization and the notion that, well, my good works are just to show other people that I have faith, and what Jesus condemns in Matthew 6.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And there are nuances. This is all contextual, and I recognize that motivations can be very different. But at least think hard about this.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Think hard about what is it that is promoting this. Because when you get up on a plane to piss off dozens of people because you want to put on display how much you love Jesus, I think the motivations are on one side of that spectrum of motivations.

Dan Beecher Look, I don't claim to know what the motivation is of that young guy to do that. I believe probably that was also a very uncomfortable thing for him to do, and he- Yeah ... clearly had a reason that he thought it was important, that he was obeying a commandment, that he was doing something good for his religion by doing it. I just don't think he thought about, is it good? Or do you just think, is there just sort of an argument that could be made that it's good? And I think you were talking about Matthew 6, and that moment about the hypocrites praying in the streets and in the synagogues so that they may be seen by others. And I've put this out there and had people say, "Well, yeah, but that's just about what's in their hearts. That's about their disposition. And if they're doing it so that they can be seen by others, then that's bad. But if they're doing it for a good reason, so that it's inspiring to others or so that it's blah, blah, blah, then maybe that's an okay thing." And I think that's an okay argument if you choose not to keep reading the next verse. Because the very next verse says, "But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father- Yeah ... who sees in secret will reward you."

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher There's a literal next step- ... which is like, no, do this quietly and on your own.

Dan McClellan And I think the person who gets up to do that, I have no doubt that they were nervous about it. I have been a proselytizing missionary in another country where I had to go create a street display and stand in the town square.

Dan Beecher You did?

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher They made you do that?

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Oh, wow. Well, it was just one of the things we could do, and it was like- Oh ... okay, I could go walk around knocking on doors, or I could do this. And I was like, "I'm going to do this this time."

Dan McClellan So I know the feeling, but what it so frequently does is it just ends up entrenching people in the identities they're already a part of.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Because the folks who are already conservative Christians are going to enjoy it and be like, "Yeah, preach." And then the people who are not are going to be like, "This is why I don't like Christians." And so it really, you're just curating your standing for the in-group and- Yeah ... kind of cementing the identity politics.

Dan Beecher And so- It's one of the things that I've always-- One of the objections I've always had to, there are guys, for instance, just as an example, and I'm sure we've all seen them, if you're in the US or probably the UK, other places, there are these guys who go to every religious event that isn't their thing.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher They come to general conference of the Mormon Church, and they go- And hold up big signs. And they hold up these big signs that are all about, "You're a sinner if you do this, this, this, this."

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher And I always want to ask them, do you think you're actually winning hearts here?

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Do you think that this approach is having any positive effect on anyone? Do you think anyone's changing their mind? Oh, I've seen your sign.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher I've seen you yelling at people as they walk past angrily and trying to rage bait everyone as they move past you. Do you believe you have changed anyone's heart?

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Because if you haven't, and they obviously haven't, ever- ... at any of these events- Yeah ... then clearly what they're doing is not good. I don't see how you could make the case.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Other than, like you say, it's a costly signaling, or it makes them have whatever feel they're after, whatever- Yeah ... I was going to say warm, fuzzy, but I don't know, dark prickly- Yeah ... that they want. Because they're clearly just there to antagonize. And yeah, I guess they can go back to their home church and talk about the evils of the world and how bad everybody but us is because they yell at me when I go out, and all I'm trying to do is tell them how good Jesus is.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher So they're obviously bad.

Dan McClellan Well, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy there.

Dan Beecher Right.

Dan McClellan And so, yeah.

Dan Beecher It seems designed to do just that.

Dan McClellan Yeah. So you don't know what a lot of people have going on in their own closets, how they're praying- Right ... in secret, and how they live their religion. I get a lot of flack. People demand that I put on display my religiosity on my social media- Mm ... channels all the time, and it's like, that's not what it's for. And you don't get to have access to my moments of piety because that's private, because I think that is, one, if you follow what Jesus says, at least in the Gospel of Matthew, and I think you can find sentiments like this in several parts of the New Testament. I try not to do those things in order to be seen of others. I take that seriously. And just saying it is a way that I kind of signal to other people that, "Look, I do it right." So it's hard to escape that kind of thing. What are the motivations for doing that? Because even if you have spent a lifetime doing that, and then you go, "I want some recognition for doing it right," it's like suddenly- ... you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan So, yeah. It's a squishy little situation, but definitely don't sing on an airplane.

Dan Beecher For the love of all that is good and holy.

Dan McClellan The thesis of this episode is just don't sing on an airplane, man.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Just sit down and watch the screen that is on the back of the seat in front of you, unless you're flying on an awful airline- Ugh ... that requires you use your phone because they don't want to put screens on the back of the seats.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan In which case, just stare at your phone like a normal person.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Leave everybody else alone.

Dan Beecher Play some Candy Crush and heck, you could sit in your chair and pray. You could do that if you want to quietly to yourself.

Dan McClellan Nobody's stopping you.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan In your mind. Your own private little closet in your mind.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher I just think it's very interesting. I see current, especially conservative, especially evangelical American Christianity going in this direction of being loud and in your face, and just a whole bunch of things that feel very counter to what I read when I read Jesus's message.

Dan McClellan Well, and I think there are a lot of people who think evangelical Christianity is growing significantly right now, and to the degree that's true, it is growing among those who treat it as a social institution.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan Precisely because those are the mechanisms of social institutions. They're living a social Christianity, and that's not to say that's any more or less legitimate a Christianity. Christianity is a lot of different things.

Dan Beecher Yeah. But at least- And nobody gets to define what counts as good Christianity- Right ... or bad Christianity- Right ...

Dan McClellan or whatever. Don't let me catch you defining- Yeah.

Dan Beecher Oh ...

Dan McClellan Christianity.

Dan Beecher Anybody out there, not just you, Dan, but- Oh, believe me, you've beaten it out of me. I don't believe in defining anything anymore.

Dan McClellan But I think you can have Christianity that is less harmful.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan And I think once you commit to a social Christianity, then the social aspect of it takes over, and I think that leads to all kinds of problems.

Dan Beecher And there's nothing good about alienating people, so- I don't think so ... stop doing that.

Dan McClellan Yeah. Don't do a version of your religion that alienates other people and makes them feel uncomfortable and bad.

Dan Beecher That just seems silly.

Dan McClellan But unless it's about using the word Mormon, I don't want to hear anybody using the word Mormon.

Dan Beecher That's just...

Dan McClellan Yeah. We don't do that around here.

Dan Beecher You got to say it right. Oh, man. Which is Latter something.

Dan McClellan Yeah.

Dan Beecher Nobody's going to take any advice for how to be a good Mormon from you, Dan. You didn't even know who the prophet was.

Dan McClellan When have I said, "Look to me as the example of how to be..."

Dan Beecher Shoot.

Dan McClellan I'm sure there's a word for it in English. I don't remember what it is, but there are so many times when I just want to say sobresaliente, which is Spanish, and I can't think of a good English substitute for that, but exemplary maybe.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan That's a word.

Dan Beecher Yeah.

Dan McClellan All right.

Dan Beecher Well, I think that's good. We'll leave it there.

Dan McClellan Well, what if we just say we'll leave it there?

Dan Beecher Yeah, right? One of the things we considered, we never got to it, but we considered- Oh ... calling this segment "Nah, I'm Good." Because singing on a plane, no, I'm good.

Dan McClellan No, I'm good.

Dan Beecher Yeah. Yeah, you can leave that one. If you would like to become a part of making this show go, helping us to bring you good content every week- Keep the lights on.

Dan McClellan Do you know how much these colored lights cost?

Dan Beecher Almost nothing. I just- Anyway, you can go over to patreon.com/dataoverdogma and give a little bit. You can get early and ad-free access to every episode of the show, as well as access to our bonus content, the afterparty every week, and the happy knowledge that you are making a difference in the world. Thanks so much to Roger Gowdy for editing, and thanks to all y'all for tuning in. We sure do appreciate you.

Dan McClellan Bye everybody.